FP Turbos Vs. BBK Turbos.. Can someone explain the HYPE im not seeing???

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Im doing some research here on evo X options for my customer and im seeing HP #'s that dont add up.. Im hearing HYPE about some fantastic spool better than FP turbos that im not seeing.. I compiled a small list of threads sure on different dynos different cars etc.. I can still form an educated guess on some things from experience whether on the same dyno or car or not..

Here is a FP GREEN X Turbo on a Dynojet.. Basic bolt ons Pump gas etc.. Would appear peak TQ is at 4750rpm or so.. making 400+hp by 7k.. A FAT powerband.. Boost is at 25psi.. Mod is FP Green, FIC 900cc injectors, ARP Rod Bolts, MAP o2 DP, Rexpeed TP, Megan Drift-Spec CB, aFe SRI, Cobb FP Turbo Inlet, ETS 4" FMIC, AMS UICP, UR LICP



Here is a dyno of BBX Lite.. the Super Spooler.. below is mod list.. I see Peak TQ around 4800 or so and doesnt break 400whp even.. 27psi..

CBRD FMIC
CBRD UICP (2.75" one piece)
CBRD LICP (2.5" one piece)
CBRD Test pipe
UR O2 housing, buschur quiet catback
DW1000's
3 port pierburg
CBRD Tune via ECUFLASH
CBRD Tubular Manifold
STOCK airbox





Here is an Example of the BBX full.. 420whp and still doesnt make peak TQ til 5K.. This car has a ton of mods including cams.. This is the car that supposedly makes 450whp on CBRD " Low Reading Dyno " which means this is a 530+whp pump gas car on a dynojet.. LOL That pull was never shows just talked about.. 57% humidity.. What is this a MD 480hp Turbo setup with good weather and 550+ on pump???

Here is a funny one.. Same chart.. But somehow was only 40% humidity.. So what was it Chad 40% or 57% humidity that day.. Dyno games always catch up with you..
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-d...-manifold.html

AMS FMIC
Nisei UICP
UR LICP
Kelford 214-A's
BBX - Tubular manifold
AMS DP, Test Pipe
Buschur Crossflow exhaust
Harman Motive intake
DW1000's




Now of course you say well its a dynojet vs a mustang ok.. Assuming as chad has stated his MD reads ATLEAST as low as Buschur Dyno.. then that would make sense @ 13% lower.. Except that he has made 450hp on Pump with a BBX full turbo.. So that equates to 530whp on PUMP on a BBX.. a BBX makes more than Black by 30-50whp??? Something doesnt add up here.. Chad has said himself the BBX isnt anything close to the size of the Black..

Here is a Quote from Chad @ CBRD.. " david's own evo X made 306whp, and made 287 whp here " so CBRD is claiming Roughly 15-18% lower than a dynojet with his MD.. Buschur is exactly 13% lower than us..

another quote " a car that made 382whp at david's made less here, buschur tuned black.. and 2 days later buschur tuned red, i retuned, and picked up 20whp"

Another quote.. "we made 450whp here on a BBX stock motor, 93 octane only 27psi".. So your telling me this turbo on my dynojet makes 530whp on Pump @ 27psi???

So im asking for an explanation of where the HYPE is in these BBK turbos?? Maybe Chad can chime in and Explain where all these #'s are coming from for the BBX that dont seem to make sense to me..

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Here is another good comparison if not even HP just look at the peak TQ and Spool on an FP Black.. 4700RPM full boost and Peak TQ ~4600rpm.. 450 MUSTANG DYNO HP with the spool of a BBX lite?? Am i not reading this all right???

This Black is making 400hp by 5500rpm.. Can you see above where the BBX full is making 400hp??? Thats right 7k RPM?? Where is claimed power under the curve?? where is the ROAD RACING low end power these turbos are claimed to provide?? This dyno chart doesnt seem unrealistic to me for a black.. everything looks in order..

Mod LIST
FP Black
DW 1300CC
Kelford 214-B
Perrin 3-Port
UR O2+ Downpipe
UR Test Pipe
UR Single Exit Catback
ETS LICP
ETS UICP
ETS FMIC
Cobb SF Intake
255 in-tank
One pissed off stock clutch

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Here is data on Spool on FP BLACK & FP RED.. So for those who dont care to hear anything about different dynos BOOST is BOOST.. No way to fake that really..

Here is an FP red on evo X 26psi at 4300rpm.. Hmmm.. Faster than BBX Full??? So where is all this spooling hype??




Here is FP BLACK on 27psi @ 4600rpm.. Wait.. the supposed SUPER LAGGY FP BLACK 4600rpm???? HUH.. Where is the LAG that the BBX full doesnt have???

Here is a quote from Chad in reference to the BBX Full.. "yeah, the black is bigger, im sure it will make more power ".. Now im no turbo engineer but can someone please tell me why you would buy a BBX if it doesnt spool faster than a black and doesnt make more HP??? is it the blue wheel??

If you notice the spool on this dynojet also matches up with the COBB FP Black as well.. 4600RPM approx..

[slow_spool]

Thats alot of good info.. Thanks Mike!

[mullen]

Now im no turbo engineer but can someone please tell me why you would buy a BBX if it doesnt spool faster than a black and doesnt make more HP??? is it the blue wheel??

well mike id say its bc someone that doesnt know what there buying besides what there "builder/tuner" tells them to buy
and i wouldnt put it past the kids on evom to buy a turbo for a blue wheel haha seriously

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Now im no turbo engineer but can someone please tell me why you would buy a BBX if it doesnt spool faster than a black and doesnt make more HP??? is it the blue wheel??

well mike id say its bc someone that doesnt know what there buying besides what there "builder/tuner" tells them to buy
and i wouldnt put it past the kids on evom to buy a turbo for a blue wheel haha seriously

I can deal with someone selling an inferior product thats fine.. thats their business.. its when they start to lose sight of reality and keep hyping something up and inflating dyno #'s to makes sales is when i have an issue.. Things arent adding up and i have to ask the question if im missing something or not.. The dozens of people who have gotten ahold of me all seem to agree something is not right.. So i know im not crazy..

[goodhart]

I'm on the work computer so I cannot see all the graphs so I won't comment on everything here. BUT, Are there any back-to-back tests of the two brands of turbos? like a BBX Vs. FP Green on the same car, same day, same mods? I mention this because in the first post with the FP Green car and the BBX Lite car, the BBX car was using a 3 port and tubular mani which will both hurt spool up time (albeit probably very slightly, but will hurt it none the less) and was also using a stock airbox which was more than likely hurting the top end a bit.

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just pointing out some small facts that shouldn't be ignored, and I am curious to see if anyone has ever done back to back tests on the same dyno with the same car on the same day? If not, maybe this would be a good opportunity to do so!

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

I'm on the work computer so I cannot see all the graphs so I won't comment on everything here. BUT, Are there any back-to-back tests of the two brands of turbos? like a BBX Vs. FP Green on the same car, same day, same mods? I mention this because in the first post with the FP Green car and the BBX Lite car, the BBX car was using a 3 port and tubular mani which will both hurt spool up time (albeit probably very slightly, but will hurt it none the less) and was also using a stock airbox which was more than likely hurting the top end a bit.

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just pointing out some small facts that shouldn't be ignored, and I am curious to see if anyone has ever done back to back tests on the same dyno with the same car on the same day? If not, maybe this would be a good opportunity to do so!

Trust me i would love to see back to backs on the same car but all of these cars cant be way off from each other.. as far as tubular manifold here is a quote from Chad "the manifold doesnt really affect spool too greatly..." So we have to go with what the manufacturer says..

If chad wants to send a BBX here for testing against the green HTA & Black on the same car same day ill be glad to post the results and all logs to show test was done fairly.. ill bet the house he doesnt have the balls do it.. I already know all i have to do is say " Robert i need 2 turbos for testing against the BBX and they are at my door overnight "..

[goodhart]

Well, either way, it would probably be best done at a nuetral 3rd party. Which I'm sure would never happen sadly enough.

[M_Acceleration]

Was this a post about turbos or a personal attack against another shop?

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Was this a post about turbos or a personal attack against another shop?

Its about Turbos.. I dont have any problems with Blouch.. I have an issue with someone trying to make a turbo something it isnt in order to sell them to customers who dont know any better..

[geminibby]

Well this is quite the development. I'm currently about to have the bbk full installed.
Thread
http://highboostforum.com/forum/show...ild?highlight=

reason being, my car has been in a shop's parking lot waiting for a turbo swap (friend was selling his red and buying the black). Come to find out, FP had no idea (their words exactly) when they would have any of the reds or blacks ready for shipping. I wanted the benefits that the red offered, but since they werent available, I asked the shop what they recommended. BBK Full they said. I've heard of it, but didnt know about it. Did some research. Found out a friend had one on his car. All positive. Asked the tuner who's tuning my car. All positive. Of course Chad had all but good things to say about it.

In a week or so, the results will be out. What I was told was the turbo is between the green and red. "Faster spool than the green, but not as high numbers as the red" was what I was told by several people. I'm not taking sides, this is good information to know about the turbo itself. My mods are in the thread along with the tuning history. Take it for everything else...a grain of salt. Time will tell. I'd update when I have more info and maybe a dyno sheet.

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

Well this is quite the development. I'm currently about to have the bbk full installed.
Thread
http://highboostforum.com/forum/show...ild?highlight=

reason being, my car has been in a shop's parking lot waiting for a turbo swap (friend was selling his red and buying the black). Come to find out, FP had no idea (their words exactly) when they would have any of the reds or blacks ready for shipping. I wanted the benefits that the red offered, but since they werent available, I asked the shop what they recommended. BBK Full they said. I've heard of it, but didnt know about it. Did some research. Found out a friend had one on his car. All positive. Asked the tuner who's tuning my car. All positive. Of course Chad had all but good things to say about it.

In a week or so, the results will be out. What I was told was the turbo is between the green and red. "Faster spool than the green, but not as high numbers as the red" was what I was told by several people. I'm not taking sides, this is good information to know about the turbo itself. My mods are in the thread along with the tuning history. Take it for everything else...a grain of salt. Time will tell. I'd update when I have more info and maybe a dyno sheet.

Awesome.. What type of dyno will you be using and what type of fuel.. Funny that its said to fit between a green and red yet Chads 450whp dynosheet shows it makes more than a Black.. that would be 530 dynojet on Pump 93 stock motor.. Please keep us informed.. Thanks!!

Mike

[geminibby]

I look at other people's dyno sheets and think...its their car, my car is different. My car will put up what numbers it does and thats that. Its too many varibles to consider when you start comparing cars vs cars. I listed my history, I know what the car has made on every dyno (dyno pack, dynojet, mustang, and VR (lol), so when the numbers are done we'll see how she feels.

The car is at BR right now, mods being installed and finally tuned by BR on 93. Nick also is recommended the turbo to me. He knew that I had been waiting for the red for over 2 months already and he was told as well there was no ETA. I'd be lying to say that I want to see some gaudy numbers off the heartbreaker, but I also know that its the first time tuned there. When the car makes its way out to hawaii, its going on a diet of 92 and tuning duties will be given to Chris at Mellontuning.

I understand that on graphs varibles can change the outcome. If my goal is 500 hp on david's dyno, I'm sure he can finagel some settings and make the numbers say what he wants. Do I think he'll do that..HELL NO! I also know that my car is an 8 and the thread is about the turbo on a X. Like you said boost is boost...data is data.

[mullen]

Well, either way, it would probably be best done at a nuetral 3rd party. Which I'm sure would never happen sadly enough.

technically there is no 3rd party because someone will always be partial to one brand....mike doesnt own fp, he would technically be considered a 3rd party but has a preference of turbos that lay down bigger numbers

[evoxsi]

this thread seems like a personal attack on cbrd to me. ive talked with chad many times and he has never said that his turbos will make the power of a fp black. also ur comparing different cars with different mods on different dynos.whats the real reason behind this thread?

[M_Acceleration]

Threads like this will turn this forum into another evom.... too bad...

[Spoolin0nYou]

No, EvoM would have deleted this thread and banned Mike by now.

It's threads like this that make the forum. Posting factual information that isn't cock-blocked by some Nazi mods/admins because they have an agenda.

I'm fairly sure Chad and other CBRD people have accounts here. If they wanted to say anything, they would...

[M_Acceleration]

Trying to compare Turbo's spooling with 2 very different engines is pointless. Cam specs will change a turbo's characteristics by quite a bit. If you really want to know the difference, test them back to back.. You have a shop and your own dyno, so get to work! Be methodical about the changes... and share the results... maybe do just a turbo swap, so no changes to the ecu map, then try to optimize both.

[its2qik]

Its about Turbos.. I dont have any problems with Blouch.. I have an issue with someone trying to make a turbo something it isnt in order to sell them to customers who dont know any better..

How is this any different than some mod on evoM bragging that his fp black made 750awhp. Talk about the numbers not adding up...