A poll for the 19th Annual DSM/EVO Shootout in 2011

[David Buschur]

OK, we are going to take this to a vote.

First, DO NOT VOTE IF YOU ARE NOT RACING AT THE SHOOTOUT IN 2011.

Next are the two things that are being voted on.

Some guys have complained to me this year that running a Pro Tree (when all three yellow lights come on at once) sucks. They tell me they are not use to running on a Pro Tree, it's hard to launch instantly with a DSM's/EVO's. I have other guys with automatics complaining they don't get enough time to get the car up on the converter with the Pro Tree and last I get guys complaining the starter waits to long to activate the tree and they sit on the two step too long waiting for it.

Then I have guys who feel for heads up racing Pro Tree is the only way to go.

I would personally like to see all classes run on a Sportsman/full tree (one yellow comes on, then the 2nd and finally the 3rd and then the green). This gives everyone a shot at not being on the two step too long, auto trans guys a chance to get on the converter and the average guy a better shot at doing well on the tree he is use to seeing all year.

So take a minute to vote and let's see what happens. Right now I have the rules written that for 2011 every class is being run on a Sportsman tree and all classes are heads up except for the bracket classes.

[MARK@FORCEPOWER]

I understand your reasons for having this poll, like you said "you can't make everyone happy. We obviously will go with however the poll turns out. However, I feel this just diminishes heads-up drag racing. All the events we attend each year use a Pro-tree and it works just fine. If practice is what your looking for, most tracks we attend for test & tune will switch to Pro-tree if you wish for your run. There are also ways to stage/tune and prep your car that overcome the issues that you mentioned.

Looking forward to seeing how the racers vote.

[crispeed]

The q16 should be pro tree but the auto start needs to be set up correctly. I notice this year it was taking way too long (5-7sec) to activate. Normal auto start for a pro tree would activate within 3-4 one thousand after the last staging bulb has been activated. Also with a pro tree courtesy staging should be mandatory.
In the end it's up to the racers to vote for what they want.

[Rogue]

sportsmen tree

[David Buschur]

Leaving Quick the only Pro Tree class is an option too, it's where the Pro racers should be anyway.

As for getting an auto car up on the converter fast enough, the other option is nitrous, which is only allowed in Quick class, this would again work out for a Quick class and Pro Tree.

[David Buschur]

Well crap, I added an option to the poll for Pro tree in Quick and sportsman in the others, I already voted so I can't change my vote but that is what I vote after some thought.

Anyone else who voted already and want to change it one way another just say so, I can change it manually, I just figured it out.

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

change my vote.. Pro Tree for Quick and sportsman for all others

[Carfanatic_88]

Pro Tree in all classes

[Mike@AwdMotorsports]

The guys running 11-12 seconds at their local track being stuck on pro tree sucks IMO.. Test and tune nights for the amateur racer is always sportsman.. Make it hard to have fun for the regular guys.. Who in stock appearing class has ANY pro tree experience.. Especially in an EVO if its even harder.. its not a domestic you bump in with left foot on brake and go..

Mike

[GreenMachine]

David,

You are correct, most of us run sportsman tree during test and tune. But… how many people care about their RT during test and tune? I certainly do not! A few times I tried catching a good light, I red-lighted.

Besides, most tracks will run a Pro Tree for you, if you put a “P” with a circle around it on your windshield. It usually helps to have a friend with you who also wants to run a Pro Tree.

Our local track pussyed out and went to “Index racing” for our import events. But even they still run a Pro Tree!!!

Like I said in the other thread, DSM Shootout is the LAST PLACE where we can still run true heads up, Pro Tree races. I hope that we still have it in 2011.

Leon Reitman

[GreenMachine]

Who in stock appearing class has ANY pro tree experience..

I learned Pro Tree competing in Stock Appearing class, back in '96... So have many others...

Leon Reitman

[shearer]

The q16 should be pro tree but the auto start needs to be set up correctly. I notice this year it was taking way too long (5-7sec) to activate. Normal auto start for a pro tree would activate within 3-4 one thousand after the last staging bulb has been activated Also with a pro tree courtesy staging should be mandatory.
In the end it's up to the racers to vote for what they want.

Cris, I checked with a few guys I know that run the Saturday program at Norwalk and they said the tree taking so long to drop(like in the q16 finals) after everyone is doubled bulbed is a complaint among a lot of people. Said half of them bitch cause they can't count the tree down anymore and the other half bitch because their car can't sit in the beams for 7 seconds anticipating the bulbs to drop, as was the case for the Louisville guy. The change to the tree sequence was initiated by NHRA Powerade drivers to put the reaction time back in the driver and avoid counting down the tree. So per the way things are currently done, it sounds as if Norwalks Christmas tree is correct.

[BLACKBIRD]

Pro tree in all classes. Atleast the heads up classes. If people want a sportsman tree, go T&T on a Friday night.
Also, I obviously read the posts where this poll spawned from so I'll add.....autos need no more advantage over 5 speeds in going rounds during competition.

[crispeed]

Cris, I checked with a few guys I know that run the Saturday program at Norwalk and they said the tree taking so long to drop(like in the q16 finals) after everyone is doubled bulbed is a complaint among a lot of people. Said half of them bitch cause they can't count the tree down anymore and the other half bitch because their car can't sit in the beams for 7 seconds anticipating the bulbs to drop, as was the case for the Louisville guy. The change to the tree sequence was initiated by NHRA Powerade drivers to put the reaction time back in the driver and avoid counting down the tree. So per the way things are currently done, it sounds as if Norwalks Christmas tree is correct.

That wont work with turbo cars running autos that are limited by time as to how long they can stay on the t-brake before damage occurs. I'll will tell you all the people I race with won't put up with that for sure. If they want the reaction time back with the driver then ban delay boxes or just stick to a sportsman tree.

I'll add.....autos need no more advantage over 5 speeds in going rounds during competition.

Agreed.

change my vote.. Pro Tree for Quick and sportsman for all others

I think the Q16 racers and all others should vote for what they want in their respective classes. After all they are the ones competing. A separate poll for each class racer would be better so for example the decision of the q16 racer won't effect the poll results of the rest.

[Rogue]

Well crap, I added an option to the poll for Pro tree in Quick and sportsman in the others, I already voted so I can't change my vote but that is what I vote after some thought.

Anyone else who voted already and want to change it one way another just say so, I can change it manually, I just figured it out.

change my vote.. Pro Tree for Quick and sportsman for all others

Change mine -- the q16 cars obviously have more practice then me or any other weekend track runner.

[JimmyBlueTSI]

Just my opinion here. A Pro tree = competition. A Pro tree is a true "reaction" time. A Sportsman tree is "timing", not reaction. Most of the Q16 guys are used to a pro tree anyways. These are NOT bracket cars remember! Dave, you will see some super fast cars red light completely taking away from the fun of the competition. I don't know what the deal is with the starter waiting so long to let the bulbs drop. I've never seen such a delay out this way. Now THAT is a pain in the ass. No one should have to stay on a 2 step or converter for that long. Not quite sure what gives with that. But getting away from a pro tree would be a big mistake IMO.

[MikeRizz]

Pro tree for all heads up racing! But they have to enforce courtesy staging. I saw many cars get double bulbed Sunday.

[froyd79]

Im used to sportsman, but pro tree for all just adds another competition element. I think its fine. HOWEVER courtesy staging MUST be enforced. I always courtesy stage but was rushed when I was double bulbed and was a lil bent but, Its a DSM doing it to me not some Local, so I was more shaking my head than mad.

[StreetThisEvo]

Pro tree for all heads up racing! But they have to enforce courtesy staging. I saw many cars get double bulbed Sunday.

I agree 110% with what you said word for word.

[Lucas English]

Pro Tree with Auto Start working.